Things I have been thinking about.

[supermouse]

I'd forgotten how much I enjoy the Bonzo Dog Doodah Band. My favourite is probably Here comes the equestrian statue, at the link provided but also on the Cornology album, disc one. However, listening to the album anew, Look Out There's A Monster Coming is distinctly dodgy given the 'monster' has a distinct accent. I would have to see the video.

Less jolly is the driving out of Roma from Belfast with the help of Combat 18 (18 for AH for Adolf Hitler).[1] I was aware of them via sideways and convoluted links to Odinists - being a Norse Pagan, you end up aware that some practitioners of the faith are the worst sort of racist bigot evildoers - Adolf had a sort of thing for the Norse pantheon and it carries over, unfortunately, to some of the neonazi groups. Embarrassing if you're a Heathen yourself. I don't say they're 'not real Pagans', either - I'm a big believer that your faith is what you claim it is, although you can be a piss-poor example of your religion. 'But they're not *real* Fooists' is a too-convenient way to avoid in-house clearing. Anyway, here's another lovely example of how C18 have been behaving. The Roma families have fled, but here's what they're going back to.

On the one hand, we exoticise the Roma with Gypsy Caravans and images of Gypsy Queens and fortune tellers and even turn them into a race of magic-users inside roleplaying games. On the other hand, they're 'the last to be hired and the first to be fired', othered, and we have cute rhymes about them stealing babies and horses, giving bad deals and even just plain strange dress sense. Pretty picture, not so sure about the rhyme. I do wonder what relation the rhyme, which I certainly learned as a child, has to the flags on the Romani.org Home Page. On this page, you can learn more about the Roma as people, as a culture and also the common stereotypes - how many of those were part of your upbringing?

[1]I was pointed at this by the excellent Spiralsheep and have edited after realising I did not credit her for bringing this to my attention.

Comments

[7rin]

Nick's mom's Gypsy (and so obviously, he's half Gyp).

What I find interesting is that they're from a family who uses the Gypsy word, yet you should hear the bollockings I get off the on-line lot if I dare use such a filthy word! Apparently they (Nick's family) only use it 'cause they've been brain-washed to think it's ok, and not 'cause it's an easy descriptor[1] these days (Roma's "too foreign" <g>).

Next-door neighbours're also Gyp, although I dunno if it's both sides that are, or just his.

[1] Words get 'reclaimed' - after all, how many of the English bitch about called a Pom these days, yet you try telling The Righteous On-Liners that.

[supermouse]

I think there's a big difference between a family reclaiming the version for themselves, and white people, who have the institutional power, using it as an epithet. As a general rule, if you're not the original target of an insult, you can't be the one to reclaim it. Please don't use that term on my blog. Thanks.

[7rin]

What, so if we're ever discussing Nick's family in the context of their heritage, you'd much rather me use a term that they've said they don't want using for them because it indicates things that are NOT them (i.e. 'foreign'), and would rather me not use the term that they themselves would prefer to have used?

*shakes head* Sometimes I think I'll never understand people, not even those that I think I comprehend (at least in a small part).

[supermouse]

I'm rather shocked, to be honest, that I can write a blog entry about a neonazi group being run out of the country with bombs and death threats. and that your only reaction is to wade in about your right to use a particular racial epithet.

If we're discussing Nick's family, *then* it's an issue which term we use. Until then, I don't like the word and I have every right to ask you not to use a, to me, offensive term in my own space. I have not told you what terms to use in your own blog, nor will I.

[7rin]

Ok, I'm now extremely confused. You posted about Roma/Gypsies and the glorifying (and denigration) of them. I reply mentioning the only people I know who are Roma/Gypsy, and give my take on the use of the words (which is taken from their take on the words), and then you bitch at me for using the word that you've already used yourself in your main post.

I wasn't wading in about my right to use a any racial descriptor, I was simply raising one of the few points I feel I am able to discuss concerning even a small part of the issue with any clarity, based upon what I've been told by some of the people who have these descriptors applied to themselves.

[dame_grise]

I have a friend who eventually had to leave the Czech Republic (this was a few years back) because people kept mistaking her for Roma and treating her like crap (ranging from mild like rudeness and refusing service to actual threats of violence). All this despite her being a journalist, an American with an American accent, and full-blooded Indian (used correctly -- she's 2nd generation with tons of cousins still in India).

[supermouse]

That's an awful experience for her. It shows how bad things can get. I feel so bad for that family, probably trying to escape just this sort of thing and then finding it even *worse* in a supposedly tolerant country.